Then he left theChurch, the dogma that each Pope has the gift of immunity from error (the gift of truth) and the gift of a never-failing faith, What Saint Bellarmine really said about Popes and Heresy, Pope Francis Accused of 7 Counts of Heresy by 19 Scholars, first add a Chrome RSS reader or extension. But in an April 2020 tweet, Tim said that his contract with Marshall was not renewed "against my wishes." Sounds a bit petty, but I have noticed there's a lot of division and debate in the Catholic blogosphere regarding the SSPX. . I'm sick of the neutered emasculated tone that I'm forced to listen toThere's a method to my madness, he told The Pillar. It is unsurprising the books use a few similar phrases, Tim said, since Davids family was living with Tim and Stephanie when all three Gordons were writing books on the same subject. Unofficial theme song for Dr. Taylor Marshall's "TnT" videos.Clips from Taylor Marshall youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Taylor0Marshall/videosN. Abby Johnson on Pro Life State Bans w Dr Taylor Marshall Tim Gordon Fr Dave Nix: 05/29/2019: 254: Taylor Marshall Meets Pope Francis (Plus Cardinal Burke on Patriotism and Natural Law) . So the seventh accusation is patently false. And Francis gave the above statement, essentially as a reply, saying, Yes, it is Gods permissive will. I think Fr Khouri might have been implying that few if any Christian Apologists are making their living by tent-making these days ,Patrick. And most of these people think youre scum just for going to the Novus Ordo. I figured Id go privately to the publisher. (3:02 PM), [DorotaG had tweeted (4-12-20, 11:01 PM): My bishop in endangering my soul and the boot licking FSSP is nowhere to offer a real mass. (3:13 PM), It seems possible to do with some but not most SSPX attendees, namely the ones w/o the schismatic attitude How do you unite the clans with those who call us FSSP bootlickers, a common attitude among SSPX ever since FSSP broke off. I think youre [Steve Skojec] closer to my position than Taylors since both of us wont attend SSPX (for ineffable reasons, even) and yet he will (5:20 PM), In the interest Christian unity, Id like to emphasize that I do NOT believe that@TaylorRMarshallerred by receiving the Eucharist from the SSPX on Easter; regular parishes are widely shuttered and there was no other possibility of receiving the Holy Eucharist. Please say a prayer for me. When a guru, as in John Corapi falls many are scandalized, some in my parish are just now returning to the Church. (9:58 PM), Lefebvre voted for EVERY SINGLE DOCUMENT. Its quite strange, no? The evidence Ive compiled is damning., And they were like Yeah, this is overwhelming. I spoke to TANs attorney on the phone, and I had him look at the side-by-side, and he was telling me on the phone, Oh gosh, this is obviously your work.. There were other pastoral councils that did not condemn a heresy. I think its best for women, and theyre happiest, when theyre in their God-given roles which the popes have spoken about in an unbroken lineage going back to St. Peter.. In a Catholic World Report review, Favale wrote that Ask Your Husband makes no attempt at a coherent theology of marriage or womanhood., Favale said the books author proof-texts, pulling quotes from scripture, magisterial texts, and random websites (gotquestions.org?) He holds degrees in literature, history, philosophy, and law. Yes, the Open Letter accuses Pope Francis of committing formal heresy, which carries the penalty, under the eternal moral law and Canon law, of automatic excommunication. We patiently wait, endure, and we resist.. what happened to taylor marshall and timothy gordon Posted by By ospedale santa chiara pisa reumatologia March 18, 2023 pittsburgh technical college lawsuit David Gordon says his sister-in-law Stephanie did just that, by lifting a central section of Ask Your Husband from his own efforts. (4-14-20, 4:59 PM). So it is not Pope Francis teaching that God positively wills many religions. As they go through the seven accusations, Marshall and Gordon essentially assume that Francis does teach these seven alleged errors. And JP2 was FAR more modernist than he acknowledges, but the point is that Daves tweet to Taylor was 100.0000% civil. Hes got a good heart and weve both had a hard year. The basic distinction between masculine and feminine, and why the sexes are not equal but complementary. It goes Scripture, patristics, scholastics, magisterium, modern magisterium. To fulfill the positive precepts required of Catholics, we must submit our minds and hearts to the teachings of the Magisterium, including non-infallible teachings of the Pope. You are wrong on cohabitation. Delighted to hear that! Indeed I read last night, on one of Taylor Marshall's latest tweets, that he has blocked Timothy Gordon and also his wife as well I think. (4:06 AM), Photo credit:Thomas Splettstoesser (8-15-06):atomic structure of profilin in comlex with actin, PDB code 2BTF, cartoon representation, rendered with PyMol [public domain / Wikimedia Commons], Famed Atheist Champion Antony Flew Became a Deist, "Because he calls himself (or called himself in the past) this title; therefore I use ", "Dave, why do you call James White "Bishop White". Only dad does. Radical Catholic reactionaries love to habitually go up to the line but not quite goover it. I've had temptations myself I think I've treated Pope Francis a little bit harshly, when I've spoken about him, partly because I want to keep something interesting. but for all negative comments about them. Please disown that, For my part, I didnt even see the SSPX debate your post caused until late afternoon. She reads the Bible like a good fundamentalist: literally and legalistically. So Taylor Marshall is publicly accusing Pope Francis of teaching multiple heresies. They are, A) shes calling names, not me B) my daughter has brain surgery in 90 mins and many of these people want to go to war with good guys like FSSP. (10:21 AM), Honestly: All I care about is the truth. I dont care about the business model. Thats heteropraxy, not heterodoxy. Sorry Gordons, but this seems to be the only way. To prove his point, David produced a 28-page side-by-side comparison of excerpts from his own manuscript and his sister-in-laws. The SSPX is the only church in town that is not a total joke and does not desecrate the eucharist. That shows the extent of the danger of the one-man apostolate, because there's all the temptations out there, he said. Ill speak to ANY of these guys Ive ever crossed swords with. Can we talk about that? Tim said he okayed her to use Davids text as a resource for her book while the brothers held a joint copyright over the material and even if he hadnt, his brothers claim is dramatically overstated, he said. Gotta be two-sided though. David, author Stephanie Gordons brother-in-law, told The Pillar that crucial sections of Ask Your Husband were plagiarized from his own unpublished critique of feminism. You had three authors writing two companion books practically under one roof; feminism was basically all we talked about in those days, he told to The Pillar. RoP [. For context, here is one of the podcasts they did a while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxoUW3Tn01Y. Justice demands that I set the record straight. The SSPX equaling formal schism stuff is wrong, as far as I know. Its intellectual. Civil discussion is whats needed and you wont even respond to me, privately or publicly. As Faramir says of war: sin makes corpses of us all. I am grateful to the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X, by whom our Marshall family received the Resurrected Body of Christ on this Easter Morn. Or I could say women need to be in the home because I hate them and I don't want to see them in society., Its silly to say that Dave Gordon is a misogynist and its rash, imputing to me a motiveIts as silly as saying that Im racist because I dont believe in affirmative action. (5:07 PM), Im not convinced SSPX is in schismatic! The true meaning of submission in Ephesians 5 and why it doesnt mean subjugation. Whether you agree with Marshall or not, Francis publicly stated that the diversity of religions falls under the permissive will of God. ], Did you see how many folks idiotically assumed that I havent been reaching out as a brother in Jan/Feb/March? Please disown that[.] A bunch of the mob on here defend your position, but say they choose FSSP over SSPX every time, THIS is the real issue. Dont worry brother[.] Show me where I called you a single name. Your email address will not be published. The latter of which was/is troubling and misleading[.] God wanted to allow this: Scolastica theologians used to refer to Gods voluntas permissiva. (7:45 PM), Petty, self-serving, vindictive, egomaniacal acts like releasing sensitive private 411 about my household during Abbys surgery. Distinctions matter[.] to media and to feminist opponents of Ask Your Husband.. Only one offering mass, confession and benediction for over a month.], For my part, I didnt even see the SSPX debate your post caused until late afternoon. And JP2 was FAR more modernist than he acknowledges, but the point is that Daves tweet to Taylor was 100.0000% civil[.] But the meaning of the Council inheres in the text, The world of text, hermeneutic, jurisprudence. And he makes this absolutely clear later in the video: Marshall: Its like Paul in Galatians, he could resist Peter to his face, but he couldnt depose Peter. Lets take this offline, bro. I await your reply, Taylor Its sophistical to claim (ever) that its too late for civility. I used to believe this nonsense as well. They put their faith in strong men. It is fixable. (3:04 PM), Nobody wants the Catholic infighting, Taylor. Wish ALL of them into the Kingdom of Heaven[. (2:20 AM), My homeboy@SteveSkojec (accidentally) mischaracterized my position, which is actually schismatic attitude in many/most attendees (but not all)[.] (12:11 AM), The attempts to throw Dave under the bus are silly. If they try and publish this elsewhere, it will be over my dead body. (4-14-20, 4:36 PM), Precisely, no more feuding in public. (Part 1), Francis Delalieu Embraced the Two Greatest Commandments. Truly care for him. Tim tweeted that he wasnt certain why Taylor opted for non-renewal during the peak of TNT popularity, and said that Marshalls evolution regarding SSPX was likely a factor. I was being snubbed. The Spirit also works with unbelievers, such as atheists and agnostics, so that they might find salvation by loving their neighbor, and thereby may implicitly know and love God. Sorry, Taylor! Without them we would be without the Sacraments. (8:33 PM), Never too late when people care for each other in true Christian charity (which I do for Taylor). When Pope Francis issued the early statement on many religions, some theologians complained saying that God only permits many religions. Its destructive and wrong. (If recent history is a guide, I wont get a reply. With so many apologists, all scrambling to act as conference speakers or experts which ones do you trust? A subreddit to help you keep up to date with what's going on with reddit and other stuff. Take it up with them. Get over it. what happened to taylor marshall and timothy gordon By cases where eyewitnesses were right March 7, 2023 okja symbolism Please disown that, For my part, I didnt even see the SSPX debate your post caused until late afternoon. Patrick is the Canadian-born former host of "Catholic Answers Live," and he has raving fans around the world. And it is contrary to the above discussed dogma that no Pope can teach heresy or grave error, i.e. But while both Gordon brothers have made their living in far-right circles of the Catholic internet, David said his plagiarism charge is about more than his own corner of Catholicism, and about far more than a dispute between brothers. Until a few months ago, Taylor Marshall and Tim Gordon were friends and cohosts of the TM podcast, for God's sake. . Calling FSSP bootlicking (as many who were supporting your tweet were doing) IS fragging. (4-14-20, 4:23 PM), Im blocking the 3 Gordons because they will not drop it regarding me and the SSPX. It had become clear we didnt agree about Taylors evolving position on the SSPX, but I wished to continue: we were still bringing souls to the Church together, which matters most to me[.] That is pretty much it. Brothers squabbling a bit is the inevitable cost of abandonment by our spiritual fathers; all of us have various talents, but none of us have authority to pronounce on theological questions. I don't know what happened first, but since then, what little I have listened to from Dr. Marshall, Voris, and Gordon since then has not mentioned each other by name at all, telling me that things might not be so amicable. (4-14-20, 4:58 PM), It is fixable. Why the biblical analogy of Christ as Bridegroom and the Church as Bride remains the fundamental truth of the relationship between the sexes. Timothys brother David (words in purple below) apparently started the current controversy with this tweet: This mainstream trad Catholic dalliance with the schismatic SSPX (canon 751) is beginning to endanger the souls of the faithful and it needs quashing with dispatch. The pope is a valid pope, but only worthy to be bashed and lied about week in and week out. But at first disagreement (my critical review of his book, Infiltration) I was immediately banned from his Twitter page and have been the fodder for his (rather juvenile and petty) insults ever since. He judges the Supreme Pontiff to be guilty of teaching heresy on multiple serious points of doctrine. He didnt. Outward unity among the reactionaries has been fairly solid, since all alike detest and despise the pope (my enemys enemy is my friend.). I ask everyone to pray for all parties involved. Thus, when there are disagreements, how can two mini-popes with their little online fiefdoms resolve a difference? One can only approximate how much one wouldnt have known if they hadnt seen someone elses citationsIn terms of the approximate remediability of pretending to know something you wouldnt have known if you hadnt read someones work but were going to research the same topic, how much of their sources would you have found?, Well when were talking about scripture and major encyclicals that pretty much everyone that knows anything about this knows, and you talk to the person for a long time, its really hard to come to a conclusion other than, yes, Steph would have known where to look in the scripture, because I knew. (11:39 PM), God bless FSSP! And he states this again, more specifically later in the video. And a ", Taylor Marshall vs. Timothy Gordon (Hatfields & McCoys Redux). Not just VC2. There's a race to put out product and sell merchandise to cult-like fans, to Jonestown-esque fans, who will defend you no matter what you do. In the course of the discussion, Marshall commits public heresy and schism. Its intolerable, Its a boring, inconsequential, fruitless debate. Hes been ignoring me nearly 100% since almost immediately after he said he wouldnt do another year of TNT. Yes, Dave and I disagree on stuff. And they pretend that he said the opposite. Then, too, anyone who stands in judgment over the Pope, violating the teaching and law that no one may judge the Pope, commits the sin of schism. The Firing of Tim Gordon. After talking with David, The Pillar reached out to Tim and Stephanie Gordon through their attorney. But after the fact of our sinfulness, our fallenness, our brokenness, given that many persons are weak in many ways, and so cannot bring themselves to accept the Catholic religion, God permits them other paths to salvation, which are nevertheless always through Christ and His Church (even though they may not realize this). Petty, self-serving, vindictive, egomaniacal acts like releasing sensitive private 411 about my household. Professional gurus need money to survive but when their popularity wanes then the cycle begins again as the apologists have to reinvent themselves or go back to regular work. Check out some of the. Yet Gordons approach is legalistic and ideological; she snips and twists scripture and tradition to align with her preconceived views, and is ultimately unable to escape the same trap that often ensnares feminists: a tendency to see man-woman relations primarily through the lens of power., Favale observed that if Stephanie Gordon desires a truly Catholic understanding of femininity, she might need to ask someone other than her husband.. In this video, I address the recent controversy surrounding Taylor Marshall's comments on the SSPX, Dave and Tim Gordon's reactions to it, and arguments that. David told The Pillar that TAN informed him it had discontinued the sale and publication of Ask Your Husband in light of his allegation. I've had to make confessions like that.. this morning, actually. Major pattern. Tim told The Pillar he had been advised by an intellectual property lawyer that a 2018 federal court decision, Experian Information Solutions, Inc. v. Nationwide Marketing Services, Inc., applies to the question of whether Stephanie Gordon violated copyright law and she didnt do so, Tim said. The West is now ready for the RETROGRADE programme of recovery. Well, where did you get this idea from? he said. Marshall: I honestly think that the safest position is this is the Pope we have right now. No one has the authority to do that, as the Popes decisions are not subject to review. This is contrary to the first Commandment of the Ten Commandments, You shall have no other gods before Me. . (3:43 PM), I never claimed I texted Taylor yesterday. Dont worry brother, No worries at all. Catholics become schismatics when they reject the Pope as Teacher and Shepherd, when they reject his authority over doctrine and discipline. Therefore, he has chosen to depart from the Catholic Church. He was acting as a good father. Cuz the Church wont clarify. In this video, Pope Francis Accused of 7 Counts of Heresy by 19 Scholars, Taylor Marshall and Timothy Gordon discuss the Open Letter accusing Pope Francis of heresy. I would never frag ya, Disagreeing respectfully is the OPPOSITE of fragging. "The Catholic Monitor" Butchers My View of Papal Lucas Banzoli Misrepresents Chrysostom's Eucharistic Theology. They are[.] He made it sound like he called back, Steve. (9:58 PM), Someone close to Taylor, tell him to return my call. David told The Pillar he discovered the alleged plagiarism in mid-March, and set to work documenting what had happened. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. [In Terra Pax Hominibus; Denzinger 351-353.]. I dont care about the business model. God forgive me for anything negative or incorrect that I have ever said about the SSPX. I recognize Pope Francis as the Pope. So theres this discrepancy there, you can tell what was her original thought, because its a lot of pop culture tropes that are being regurgitated, and then shell throw in something thats a deeper point, he added. Reaching out to a brother in Christ is ALWAYS good advice. The morning dawned vibrant, perfectly bright. But Trads have flatly misunderstood religious freedom in Dignitatis: read Leo XIIIs IMMORTALE DEI 36, which Trads reject Dave and I agree 100%about Dignitatis[.] 2 or 3 of them. I cant do UNITY alone. What theyre talking about hereis formal heresy.. And this is the danger of when you kick this away from the magisterium, members that are clerics have grace of state that helps to prevent some - not all - of the greed from setting in.. When it was published in February, you might have expected that a book called Ask Your Husband: A Catholic Guide to Femininity would be controversial because of the content A reading of Sacred Scripture and Catholic doctrine which argues that women shouldnt work outside the home, and owe their husbands a robust version of marital obedience. Such was my purpose for my rejoinder. People accused me of not reaching out, which I have been for months, Did you see how many folks idiotically assumed that I havent been reaching out as a brother in Jan/Feb/March? It seems possible to do with some but not most SSPX attendees, namely the ones w/o the schismatic attitude How do you unite the clans with those who call us FSSP bootlickers, a common attitude among SSPX ever since FSSP broke off. Only dad does. This happened on Easter Sunday when Taylor Marshall received the sacraments from the SSPX: the breakaway group which is in imperfect communion with the Catholic Church. Show me where I called you a single name. But not while shots are fired hourly on Twitter and crowds watch on. This practice results from, among other things, our respect for our various authors.. (4-14-20, 5:01 PM), Im fine. Many of you are followers of Dr. Taylor Marshall's podcast series on YouTube, and are familiar with Tim Gordon, who co-hosted with Marshall for the . God forgive me for anything negative or incorrect that I have ever said about the SSPX. Canon 1364, n. 1: an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication. It is not submission to acknowledge that Pope Francis is the Pope. I said nothing about you or your family on here and never would! (3:43 PM), The point of departure was NOT receiving Communionwhich is licit all things consideredbut the apology for not just inaccurate statements about SSPX (which is great!) I love dialogue; I care about Taylor; most of all, I love the truth. But its certainly here now. Because all of the temptations that you would expect to be at play within, like, the Catholic Twittersphere, YouTube, the one-man apostolate that is so popular now, all of those temptations towards monetization, towards fame, towards glory in the eyes of your 7,000 fans or whatever it is, they're all there., There's a race to the bottom. PS: this isnt a big deal. He refused every time, Tim wrote to The Pillar. Yes, Dave did work hard, Tim said of his brother, the person who was first on [feminism] was Dave Gordon. For my part in some irreverent jesting in the wake of this spat, Im sorry. Its all my idea the way I framed it and created it into an argument, into a cogent thoughtfor someone to waltz in and take that stuff that they don't know about, and to beat me to the punch publishing my own book, filled with my own research, its theft of years of my life.. Its intellectual. Civil discussion is whats needed and you wont even respond to me, privately or publicly. About Us. The Gordon brothers signed in 2019 a contract to write No Christian Feminism, a treatise on feminism and Catholic theology for Sophia Institute Press. Ask Your Husband was withdrawn from sale and publication late last month by its publisher, TAN Books, causing a minor splash in some Catholic circles on social media in the process. You may not accuse the Pope of heresy. I heard he was mad about some of them[.] (2:04 PM), I dont think theyre formally schismatic, but its a case by case determination that is impossible to make unless you speak to the individual Kook yelling novus ordo is invalid! (2:14 PM), Just tried calling you. You said precisely about a schismatic slur[.] I heard he was mad about some of them, have helped you (by Gods grace) to decide to, , or better understand some doctrines and, Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. Some are born from culture, but they always look to heaven; they look to God. Sorry to see him go, but pride goeth before a fall. But David said while he is glad that Ask Your Husband has been pulled from publication, his efforts arent over. Please take a look at this list of my books and booklets, and see if any topic interests you. Lets appeal to civility Ironic to have to say, because we produced 100+ really good shows on difficult topics over the course of 15 mos. He injects these fascinating interviews with his own distinctive blend of depth and levity. Now they havent judged him, obviously no one can do that. We should be afraid were we to fail to work fraternally to walk together in life.. Cant be sensitive or grudge-holding over some of these memes. You are wrong on divorce and remarriage, and absolution and Communion for people living in objective sin. (10:22 PM), Taylor, can you tell me in a sentence why SSPX is necessary when FSSP exists? I was being snubbed. Tim Gordon has nearly 40,000 YouTube subscribers, and his weekly livestreams regularly draw tens of thousands of viewers. I dont believe (never have) as Dave does that formal schism is most likely. Bellarmine also condemned as proximate to heresy, the position that Vatican I made into heresy itself, that the Pope may be a heretic or may teach heresy. Marshall: theyre accusing him of the canonical delict of heresy. When a parish member comes to me and says, So and so said this about the Faith I listen. You are living in objective sin and leading others into that sin, by your heresy and schism. He is putting himself above the Pope, to judge his teachings to be gravely erroneous. The original story was that he was apparently leaving to focus on his own podcast series or something like it and that it was a relatively amicable departure. . Thank you! If you want, you can check out r/TaylorMarshall. . For Bishop Barron to refuse a debate with Dr. Taylor Marshall, simply on the grounds that Marshall wrote Infiltration, not only substantiates Marshall's argument that the hierarchy in the Church has been infiltrated, but also furthers a narrative of what I call the Episcopal Leviathan. (4-16-20, 3:20 PM). Pope Francis taught the view of conservative theologians that God merely permits a plurality of religions. EWTN, Catholic Answers or their personal blog? Many of the complaints David raised about Stephanie Gordons book, Tim said, were about the use of the same sources: Were talking about Ephesians 5 and other things from Scripture. (7:15 PM), My brand CANT be damaged by defending the ONE HOLY CHURCH against outsiders who claim my Sunday obligation isnt fulfilled if I attend novus. He specifically said that the plurality of religion is due to the permissive will of God. . No. The Pillar asked whether that warning could apply to Davids own employer, Church Militant, run by the demagogue Michael Voris, who is himself no stranger to controversy. At around the same time, David was hired as a copy editor and writer for the Church Militant website. It is also the story of two brothers, and one of their wives, arguing that modern feminism has ruined the family, while disagreeing over how much of that idea theyve copied from one another. Just gotta retry each day for unity. I wanted to continue, even w/ above: we were saving souls and thats all I care about: (7:57 PM), Thats why youll always see me warning against SSPX even though its trending now and him riding the wave. R4R is going to settle the debate in the coming weeks. Marshall was at that time gravitating toward the Society of St. Pius X, a traditionalist society in an irregular status in the Church. Click here for a list of my Roman Catholic theology books and booklets, including books about the future. Just ask them[.] From what I understand, Tim fulfilled his shows and is now doing his own thing. Its practically sedevacantist.. This limited communication should not be interpreted negatively or positively, the publisher added. Tim accepted the interview request, speaking on behalf of himself and his wife when asked if Stephanie would join the interview, Tim said she would not, and noted that she was eight months pregnant, apparently making her unavailable. No one who considers the Pope to be a heretic also submits their mind and heart to the teaching of that same Pope. Timothy had tweeted earlier in the day on April 13th, at 4:34 PM and 5:33 PM: Regarding@TaylorRMarshall: Im happy to chat, do a show, slap high fives and come together about the (majority) stuff we agree on OR do a civil show about the (minority) stuff we disagree on. David, 35, is an attorney, with a masters degree in theology from Franciscan University of Steubenville. Imagine being me in this situation. So God wills first and foremost that all human persons come to the Catholic religion, to find the fullness of truth. Most of the book is references to The Simpsons, and Rocky and Bullwinkle, and The Office. I took it to TAN. NOT TOO LATE! It is sheer blatant hypocrisy for him to also say that no one can judge the Pope. Timothy replied in that discussion thread: Its not a matter of opinion. (1:50 PM), Thats what we are saying: we KNOW the intent was bad. Submit your mind and heart to the Vicar of Christ, as to Christ himself. An online support campaign that emerged after the firing raised his profile, and along with his brother David, Gordon wrote books and developed his own YouTube following, Tim launched a show for parish orphans and retrogrades, and the brothers authored a Rules for Retrogrades handbook together in 2021. Unfortunately, he ceased to be Catholic in 2019, when he committed public formal schism by saying, about Pope Francis: I resist him to his face. Ask Your Husband argues that men should govern women, that men helping with housework are guilty of soft transgenderism, and that a wife should seek her husbands consent before leaving the house. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns. Tim Gordon told The Pillar that his brothers frustration is personal, and misguided. Press J to jump to the feed.

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